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INSTINCTIVE COMBATIVES | Self Protection, Combatives Forum » Training Tips » training tecniques
Close range power

[moldeeside]

Ever since I first saw slow motion clips of rocky marciano Ko`ing Jersey Joe walcott I`ve been fascinated with short punches that seem to carry as much power as huge swings. rocky`s right hand only travelled about a foot but it is widely cited as one of the hardest punches ever landed.

Today Karl came down and we worked on close shots, from open hand strikes, hooks, elbows and generally trying to get as much power as possible without announcing the shot or taking too much time or space to wind up.

It`s fascinating stuff to try and compress your tried and trusted techniques and I can see that they have a lot more application to real life than huge shots or techniques that rely on detailed build ups.

Not quite in Rockys league yet but always improving and enjoying learning.

[Pancho Sullivan]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/M9msELiZKyU&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/M9msELiZKyU&rel=0</a>

 He catches him as he is loading for a punch and perhaps also in the inital stage of launching it.Most of these short range KOs are the result of excellent timing rather than devastating power.That isn't to say that Rocky didn't have devastating power but even he wouldn't have had more power over a short range than a long range.In fact jimmy Wilde made this point quite clear in his book and said that without correct timing you are unlikely to achieve a KO.

 Sorry to be the provider of bad news but the best way of developing timing is to either fight or spar on a regular basis rather than hitting bags.

[moldeeside]

Boo !!!! You and your bad news !   

got to agree with you though and when I`ve had problems with people in the past it`s not particularly timing as in rhythm or pacing myself, its just picking a moment either when they`re talking, waving their arms round or trying to sound impressive and I`ve thought `now` and let one go.

I`m no boxer but I was always lucky enough and big enough to land cleanly or with enough power to do the job. Beer was also involved 90% of the time so it wasn`t exactly queensbury rules either.

the best boxers hardly seem to try, you watch them and think `he`s hardly touched him` yet mayweather and all the top boys have such superb technique that it does the job. Similar to when cricketers catch a ball and it goes for a 6, or a gymnast almost flies in their routine, when they are on form it`s like they don`t have to try.

So short of going back on the piss or looking for trouble I`ll have to stick with hitting bags and pads mate.
But as usual I`d say you`re right you swine !

Hope you`re well Tony, take care

Mol

[Pancho Sullivan]

 

  I`ll have to stick with hitting bags and pads mate.

 Same here,Mol. I got sick of all the headaches and constant fuzzy feel in the head.Sparring and contact work is all well and good but it does come with a price tag.

[Karl]

I`m no boxer but I was always lucky enough and big enough to land cleanly or with enough power to do the job. Beer was also involved 90% of the time so it wasn`t exactly queensbury rules either.

proves the point that with no sparing or lots of fighting you can learn timing,but don't forget how far away boxing is from sd.boxing=give a take  SD=take take take boxers can cover up and get time to line shots up,try to cover up when mols piling in and you would be in real trouble

some bags are actually designed for learning timing like the floor to ceiling bag,and hitting pads is all about timing as well.

[Martyn]

Lovely punch that,not sure I would call it a 'short' punch though.Personally I class that as a perfect shot at a very realistic s.d. range.
Although Rocky was close to him when the punch landed,he started throwing that right the second he stepped in with that feeler left hand.
That left was useless as a punch,as a clever method of creating torque and starting body weight to shift by stepping though..it was spot on.
If you watch as Rocky sends out the left,note how far from that poor head his right hand is,probably the same as you throw from when on your heavy bag mate,...so there ya go,you CAN throw close shots

[moldeeside]

Mart, I love you. If I brush my teeth and buy a realistic wig, can we go to vegas and get married?   

The thing I love about watching rocky is whether its a punch thrown from halfway across the ring or up close he always puts everything into it. There were far better boxers than him but for committment and utter fearlessness in the ring he was the man. Its interesting that he used to hit harder to begin with but was so wild he had to be reined in and taught to throw shorter punches in greater quantities to minimise the risk of being caught himself or ending up on his arse if he missed with a swing. Earlier fights against rex layne and lee savold he literally threw punches as if he was chucking half a brick into the crowd.

And as for heavy bags he had one made specially that was 300lbs (about 21 and a half stone), when you see him hitting it it looks like a scene from the borrowers or gullivers travels its that bloody big.

For very compact power shots though I think Joe Louis was the first to visibly keep things very tight, he could get some awful torque and power into his shots and fold people up like deckchairs. Wish he`d stayed retired instead of getting knacked by Rocky but there you go.

[Martyn]

Yes xxx

[Pancho Sullivan]

 Karl wrote

some bags are actually designed for learning timing like the floor to ceiling bag,and hitting pads is all about timing as well.

 True,but as Steve Morris is always saying,you are not getting punished for your mistakes.Without that element of risk it is no more than a mild form of entertainment.

[Karl]

I think you're talking about a fight tony where as mol is talking about the punch and training for the punch,,before you can think about landing a shot in a fight you need to know how to throw a punch.what you see as a mild form of entertainment is what most people call good solid practice without that you will never get anywhere.

like mart says the clip is a great shot of a full distance punch,very nice body mechs using the kinetic chain

[Pancho Sullivan]

I think you're talking about a fight tony where as mol is talking about the punch and training for the punch,,before you can think about landing a shot in a fight you need to know how to throw a punch.what you see as a mild form of entertainment is what most people call good solid practice without that you will never get anywhere.

 I guess we will never agree on this so lets call it a day.

[Karl]

well three of us agree just not you

[Martyn]

Here is an example of how fast things can get close,even the innocent bystander nearest the camera doesn't notice what is about to kick off behind him/her.....
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/5kWOW3aHJ0k&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/5kWOW3aHJ0k&rel=0</a>

[moldeeside]

amazing how the animal kingdom always mirrors our own. Except the bit round 2.52 where the winning meerkat appears to lick the brown bullet hole of the loser. Hmm. Not sure this will catch on in Deeside.

angry buggers them meerkats, wouldn`t want two of them fighting down me knickers.

[Karl]

have a look on this clip at the 3.30 mark,me throwing some short punches but setting them up using my natural kinetic chain

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Lr0ihynBwTc&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Lr0ihynBwTc&rel=0</a>