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[INSTINCTIVE COMBATIVES | Self Protection, Combatives Forum]

INSTINCTIVE COMBATIVES | Self Protection, Combatives Forum � Combatives � Power Punching for sport and street
A new art?

[Karl]

It’s become clear to me over the past few years, that Dennis’s style is different to anything else I’ve seen and I’ve found it to be the most powerful hand striking style out there, and I’ve received criticism from many people including other instructors for choosing this style, I think a lot of people just assume I’m throwing wild swings but that’s far from the case, I come to realise that people had nothing to compare it to and often the criticism is sport based it comes from comparing it to Boxing or Muay Thai,because that don't understand it,  so I’ve been thinking perhaps it’s time to put Dennis’s striking style down on paper/DVD its an art all on its own. what he created purely for his own purpose stands head and shoulders above everything I’ve seen, and as a pure self-defence art its short and straight to the point, nothing added just to fill pockets, certainly not ”reality BASED” perhaps just simply REALITY in its purest form,

I'm thinking of starting with the kinetic chain and making a dvd on the absolute basics of maximum power generation,keeping it as simple a possible



whats your thoughts?

[Pancho Sullivan]

 

whats your thoughts?

 Dennis's method is quite simple on the surface but there is a lot you can't put on DVD or in the wirtten word.If people don't understand it its their problem.I would suggest they try engaging their brain rather than be spoon fed via attractive (or in some cases,not so attractive!) visual media.One of the reasons Dennis has been so effective is due to being a hard  bastard.Numerous times Dennis has invited people to phone him to discuss his method yet hardly anyone has done so.A few conversations will soon give you an understanding of what he does,still dosen't mean you will be able to do it,but it will at least give you a theoretical understanding.To understand it in practice would require a few years on the door.

[Karl]

not so much new art just forgotten everythings been done before

To understand it in practice would require a few years on the door.

If I reacted with the techniques I train for whilst working on the door I would be up in court and out of a job in no time,you do get experience of violence, but very little experience if any will be the techniques you practice for sd,but I was talking about learning the physical, the style of striking and the power of the strikes,this style can be taught and experienced in training and like Dennis JR it can be used with different footwork,and I find its more powerful than boxing mechs,Like with mike badger I showed him how to improve his punching,and he knows what parameters are set and whether it will work in the ring.even as simple as showing an mma guy how to land a shot for more power or improve his power punching it can all be taught no different to any art.

[Pancho Sullivan]

 Personally I feel Dennis did quite a good job explaining these things on his own DVD.Its not exactly rocket science,just turning the body weight through a vertical and horizonal sphere and moving the mass at the same time.Couple that with correct arm and fist alignment and the job is done.The kinetic chain principle is just a fancy word to desribe something that we do all the time,ie,walking,or for that matter just about any other type of movement.Sometimes people tend to complicate simple things with big words and this can lead to a misunderstanding.Its been done to death and hundreds of DVDs have been produced on the subject.

 

[Karl]

I think its good to remember how hard it was to understand how to strike when your just starting even after a few years you still find better ways minor or major points to improve what you're doing as long as your open.

I've seen a lot of DVDs but the only guy I've seen showing full unrestricted full power striking and how to use it is Dennis Jones,I'm thinking perhaps I could break things down a little differently(not necessarily better than Dennis ) and put together a few hints and tips to guarantee improved power striking that I use in my training,like the best way I find to get a better understanding of the kinetic chain etc to improve your own style,and how to improve your impact,a sort of abc of universal tips that when brought together = serious power

Its natural and it's not hard to learn as long as you've got the right advice,so why are there so few people actually doing it? its only really the top guys in the boxing and muay thai/karate and there's only a few guys using it in the sd/combatives market.

Id buy it! ........how could anyone resist

[moldeeside]

evening all
I think if you were going to do a DVD of Dennis` techniques and principles it would be good to have the man himself involved, he puts things over very simply but I think a lot of it is like Tony said. Being blunt Den is one hard man with a varied background of boxing, kyokushinkai, tai chi, door work, and good old fashioned living life.

I agree that Den is something else and stands out a mile from a lot of people in the trade, but his tried and trusted techniques he showed us would disturb most people. he bins all the crap and takes you straight to the tricky bit - I now have to smash someone as hard as possible in the jaw. Hopefully they won`t die, just go to sleep then wake up when I`ve buggered off somewhere else.

I`d love to see more of him and his teachings but I`m not convinced anyone could put it across better than Den himself. And he`s happy with lurking in the background rather than taking centre stage.

[Karl]

Dennis mentioned to me a while back about creating a new art so ive been mulling it over,while Dennis would be involved, I don't think he's still got the interest to be in it

[Pancho Sullivan]

 The only suggestion I can make is that Dennis's work is put into some kind of syllabus.Without a syllabus you haven't got anything to market.

 

[moldeeside]

I think if you had Den as adviser and general guru for the project you`d have a belting DVD on your hands, but I agree with Tony you might need to go from very basics like stretching or warm up and then go right through scenario training and warning signals, or even bring out the legendary padded helmet for the full power stuff.
If you nail it you`d have quite an audience for your work mate. Spielberg? I`ve shit him !

Good luck with it mate, you`re well into the filming and putting points across very well so go for it.

Just don`t have any dandelion and burdock or haddock madras before you film or it could be curtains for your film career before it starts 

[Pancho Sullivan]

 Another to thing to consider is what exactly are you marketing.Is it a method of striking or is it Dennis Jones.If it is the former then it is doable but if the latter you are on a hiding to nothing as its not possible to create a viable product around someones personality unless you intend to promote psuedo spiritual master classes.

 Okay,so people have said it is wild swings.Fair comment really as it can look that way.So what you have got to do is provide the evidence to counter this argument.That evidence can only be based on science and logic. I would suggest speaking to Dennis and getting every bit of detail on the reasons he strikes in the way he does. He has explained it to me in both scienitific and physiological terms and it certainly makes sense.But he didn't arrive at this point by making a scientific study of fighting but rather by fighting and seeing afterwards how he had arrived at this result.But students demand evidence and that evidence must be presented in scientific terms.You have to show the "why".Why is an arm rotated in such a manner,what are the biomechanical reasons for doing so.Why is the bodyweight rotated through first a vertical sphere and then a horizontal one.Why is this superior to karates reverse punch etc.Unless you can present evidence it will just be your opinion and people won't buy into that.Dennis's knowledge of biomechanics and physiology is pretty eceptional,way above that of most of the "big names",so it might be an idea to fully utilise this resource and make sure you get all the facts right.

[Pancho Sullivan]

 Just one other thing.I am not aware of Dennis ever using the word "art",its just not a word he uses when talking about fighting or self protection.He has spoken about being able to put what he does into some kind of method but has never called it an art. I should imagine this is what Dennis would consider to be "martial art":

 <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZzUiOmU1f88&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/ZzUiOmU1f88&rel=0</a>

 It is very good but its got nothing to do with fighting.It is pure art,a performance that is pleasing to the senses.

 You also have comedy masquerading as martial art.This is a typical example.


 <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/3fHJF4ha5AM&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/3fHJF4ha5AM&rel=0</a>


 In my opinion this clip is closer to what Dennis does and its got nothing at all to do with art.

 <a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/NvoyMq84GO0&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/NvoyMq84GO0&rel=0</a>

 Most species do it in a natural manner but humans unfortunately have the abilty to think and this over-rides the natural instinct and they try and turn it into an art.If anything Dennis has removed the "art" from martial arts and that was more by necessity &nbsp;than design.

 &nbsp;I practice an art myself,tai chi,and its the reason I have a teacher,same as someone who was learning piano would need to stay with a teacher for many years.You don't need to stay with someone for several years to learn how to punch someone in the head as hard as possible.In fact Dennis's "art"  came from seeing one guy smash another in the head with a brick and his name wasn't Picasso.

[moldeeside]

 

some days tony I could honestly start a book with some of your quotes. I agree with you that what den has found most effective would probably horrify most people and to tone it down for marketable purposes would somehow dilute the purity of his techniques.

Den has toughened his hands until they are roughly as dangerous as being hit with bricks, and then has found the most effective launch path for landing them and causing the KO

But how do you put that over on a dvd ?

There was a quote about steve morris years ago saying trying to summarise his power would be like trying to catch lightning in a bottle, and I think there`s more than a bit of this with Dennis. A few hours with him last year kept us going for months, yet the actual `lesson` if you like probably could have been boiled down into about 15 minutes. the rest was more about absorbing some of his ways and just listening and trying not to miss anything.

Anyway, off to bed now cos I is knackered. take care out there

Mol

[Karl]

I think anything that takes years to perfect is an art and you can't tone down reality though many people do,the basic mindset that Dennis teaches is taught by a lot of people,what makes him different is the level of his technique and his understanding of the street fight. yet so many others try to put in a style or method, when Dennis is just pure reality

most of the sd systems out there look nothing like a real fight,perfect form, control, balance and distance can all go out the window,but there is an art in the technique and in the delivery, Dennis has got this down like no one else I've seen and with the most powerful striking techniques.

personally ive decide to make my own dvd. I’m talking about how I train for a better understanding of my own personal kinetic chain and how to build power and understanding how to train for better impact, just the basic full power delivery system, based on what I’ve learnt about striking so far, and heavily based  on the way Dennis showed me how to learn, If I took the way I train for power in a street style and did the same training for power and impact but in a boxing style I would build better kinetic chain but in a boxing style, It's the same for any striking art Muay Thai, karate etc.
Dennis’s style is full power full body weight solid kinetic chain striking(with a slight karate influence)  training like he has shown me how maximize my own personal chain, so it would be based on my experiences of what helped me and my students increase power,how to perfect your own individual way of striking, based purely on solid facts

but this will be after the one Were making when Dennis comes down, on his system,but I havent confirmed that yet Ill give dennis a call tom

[Pancho Sullivan]

 Karl wrote

I think anything that takes years to perfect is an art

 It depends in what context the word is used.People often say "there is a real art to that" when they talk about someone who has mastered an intricate skill.But that is different to the sculptor or painter who has created a work of "art".The former is mastering a certain skill,the same way as the sculptor has to master the use of tools to perform his work,but the mastery of tools dosen't create the art.That comes from inside and is expressed via the use of tools,either chisel or brush.As a builder you are skilled in use of the hammer and chisel but does that mean you would be able to recreate Michelangelo' David?