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[INSTINCTIVE COMBATIVES | Self Protection, Combatives Forum]

INSTINCTIVE COMBATIVES | Self Protection, Combatives Forum » General martial arts discussion » General martial arts discussion
Interesting piece of research

[Pancho Sullivan]

 Interesting article on gun slingers and pre-emptive movement.it would appear that the data shows the person who strikes last is the person that hits first.

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1248089/So-thats-John-Wayne-won-Wild-West-duels.html

 I suppose this applies to the intention to strike rather than the physical movement.In the Chinese arts they say "he moves first but I arrive first".Its pretty obvious they knew all about this.And its also said "there is no first strike in karate".Was this for technical or ethical reasons?

 I also read a very interesting book by Dr Susan Blackmore on Consciousness and she demonstrated that our actions orginate in the subconscious and our awareness of them is due to the reflective nature of consciousness.So when you decide to punch someone its already been decided for you a split second before.Did Bruce Lee mean this effect when he said "it" rather than "he" punches.

[Martyn]

That was an interesting read Tony,how or why you found it is worrying though!!

It says that these response tests were done with push buttons in a square off situation,very much like the old gunslingers.

It would be interesting to know how the test subjects were positioned in terms of,was it from the hip to the button,or was it hands hovering over the button?I think the reasons that the second subject moved quicker,are that they only had one mental focus to react to,and they knew the path from hip to button,so during the square off period,they are 100% focused on just one task so it is pushed straight into the sub-conscious that a reaction is definately going to be required.

The adrenaline will be pumping and heart racing,making it harder for the person who decides to 'go', as they have to break away from focus to make a mental choice,which is spotted by the other who just reacts to a movement they were expecting.

I guess this is how Bruce came about the "intercepting fist".

Back in the days when Bruce was fighting,they were pretty much stand off's,an accepted fight challenge.

If you look at old footage of Bruce sparring,he would stand ready and waiting,knowing that to hit him,his opponent would have to launch an attack.Bruce had one focus,,,when he moves..hit him.

Bruce said that when he fought,he was not facing his opponent,but sitting on the sideline watching himself,kind of outer body if you like.

I think what he was trying to say was "Don't think...feeeeel"

The word indecisive wouldn't exist if the word decision didn't?

Nice post Tony

[moldeeside]

I don`t really know enough to join in with this but genuinely loved reading both those posts, now and again someone posts on here and I go `bloody hell` at the depth of knowledge thats knocking about.

you`d assume that its safer to move first but reading this if you are composed and focused enough it could be a matter of reading the signs, not as obvious as someone winding up a haymaker but a slight shift of weight, stopping talking, looking away or any number of subtle hints that an attack is imminent.

I bet bruce would be quietly chuffed that his work is still getting people talking and advancing their own knowledge.

[Karl]

very ineresting article tony

I think what Martyn's trying to say is if you think about reacting it takes longer you have to just react without thought,that comes from training,if you've got a technique down then it will just come out when needed almost instinctively(hence the name of the site),a bit like the flinch response

If reacting after the fact was so good then boxers would never get hit and that's usually out of range(sparing range)
it gets allot harder at touching distance in fact id say pretty much impossible,this is a mistake I see a lot in TMA's and the reason I moved away from the JKD I was being taught,we were told that you could react and shown it at sparing range but not told the when the range closes it a different matter all together

Martyn used to amaze me with his reactions i could stand in front of him throw out a shot and he would block it every time,the reason was he knew which arm i was using and if he reacted as soon as the shoulder moved he would stop me,I see this now as one of the many "party tricks" that i see a lot in martial arts, your told that you can learn to respond to their attack when it only works at set parameters(only when you know its going to happen and which hand your using)


if I put Martyn at touching range and don't tell him which hand I'm using its pot luck and 99.9 percent of the time my hand hits his head,in this sort of range in a street situation action beats reaction every time,making the mistake of thinking that your going to counter or block could have serious consequences


This is very different from pushing a button or waiting for someone else to draw

[Martyn]

"if I put Martyn at touching range and don't tell him which hand I'm using its pot luck and 99.9 percent of the time my hand hits his head"

How is it pot luck,I know your amazingly skilled and i find it impossible to match your exellence...
simple

I knew I should have trained for the open hand

[Karl]

I didnt alter the last post ....honest

[Martyn]

P.S. If you were at touching range it would only be because you fell towards me wondering where your jaw went

[Karl]

Fingers in ears eyes shut and lalalalalalalalalalalala...

[Martyn]

What you typin with then??

[Karl]

 

[moldeeside]

brings a whole new meaning to dick-tation 

can I use your dictaphone? No use your fingers like everyone else.

I`ll be off now, my super noodles and spam combo is a calling.....

[Martyn]

MMMMMM.........Spamboodles..arghhh{Homer noises) ,Hope you eat them with chop-dicks Mol!

[moldeeside]

see mart, you and tony were doing ever so well and the second I got involved it all went skewiff 

tea was a triumph, grilled spam slices chopped up into the bed of world class chicken super noodles. I used my tried and trusted technique of twisting the noodles on the fork then stabbing a few chunks of healthy low fat spam to make a perfectly balanced carbs and protein stack of greasy goodness.

Might go mad now and have tinned fruit cocktail with evaporated milk, it counts towards your five a day apparently 

[Martyn]

I know you really had a fresh tuna steak salad for tea Mol,Karl is a git when it comes to editing peoples posts!!  

[moldeeside]

 

too right, slices of mango on a ryvita washed down with distilled squirrel piss and a handful of multivitamins.

microwave doner kebabs mart. A quid for two from asda. seriously, I think the inventor should be knighted. Ideal for vegetarians too because the ingredients are mainly rusk, snot, horse foreskin, cardboard, gerbil pelt and sawdust. And water to bulk them up.

recession my fat arse. Good healthy food is always available if you know where to look